Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Diego Rivera & Frida Kahlo Studio

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Diego Rivera & Frida Kahlo Studio

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I am afraid but we will have to delete these photos because they depict protected artworks and photographs displayed in a private museum, where freedom of panorama does not apply.

Gnom (talk) 06:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Keep. The Museo Casa Estudio Diego Rivera y Frida Kahlo is a government run museum, which means these should be allowable under Mexico's liberal freedom of panorama law (see COM:FOP Mexico). IronGargoyle (talk) 22:32, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The museum is not a lugar publico (public place), as it charges a fee to enter. Gnom (talk) 07:15, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I do not see evidence there that fee charging restricts something from being a public place. One of the points includes "every kind of building used for education" (emphasis mine) which a museum would qualify as. While COM:FOP Mexico notes that some government places (like train stations) restrict photography, this sounds very much like a non-copyright restriction. IronGargoyle (talk) 12:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    A museum, albeit public, is not a lugar publico within the meaning of the Mexican copyright act. You are quoting from the definition in the Mexican telecommunications act, which does not apply to copyright law. Gnom (talk) 15:36, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You offer no evidence that "lugar publico" is defined differently in Mexican copyright law vs Mexican telecommunications law and it would be a very unusual case if it was. Beyond that, COM:FOP Mexico says that "Government-owned places...have no restrictions against freedom of panorama." before the telecommunications law is even brought up as an extra bit of information. IronGargoyle (talk) 14:41, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    A lugar publico is a place that can be freely accessed by anyone. Lacking any better sources, this is how we interpret this term all across Commons. This requirement is not fulfilled for museums that charge an entrance fee. Gnom (talk) 14:54, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No this is absolutely not "how we interpret this term all across Commons"; that's absurd. "Lacking any better sources" is the phrase to note in your reply, as you continue to lack sources. US law for example treats public places very broadly, including places which charge admission and it seems clear from the plain wording of Commons policy that Mexico does the same. I think you are overgeneralizing from other countries which follow a more restrictive interpretation of public places. IronGargoyle (talk) 15:31, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hm, I don't think we can use the United States as a reference point here, because US FOP only applies to architecture in the first place, and not to artworks of any kind (not even those displayed outside). Gnom (talk) 10:10, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The objects protected by US FoP are different, but public place is still a relevant consideration; read the policy and law please. That is not the point I was trying to make though. I was just using the US as an example that shows different countries use different standards for what is a public place. You seem to think there is a Commons-wide rule for what is a public place based on whatever body of law you happen to be most familiar with. IronGargoyle (talk) 15:13, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am happy to be taught otherwise, but if what you are saying is correct, then we could suddenly upload all artworks displayed in all government-run museums within Mexico. That would be quite a deviation from the current practice on Commons, wouldn't it? I suppose what we need is a more reliable source of what is a public place under Mexican copyright law. Gnom (talk) 15:24, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I do not see any obvious cases from Mexican government museums at Category:Mexican FOP cases/deleted, so this is not a precedent-breaking issue. IronGargoyle (talk) 17:17, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To add on to my earlier comment, this case seems to agree with my take on the situation here. IronGargoyle (talk) 19:32, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
see also:
--Gnom (talk) 11:12, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]


I think per COM:FOP Mexico the files can and should be kept. If COM:FOP Mexico is wrong, it should be corrected. --Krd 09:14, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


@Krd: Please read COM:FOP Mexico very closely, and note that these photos are from a museum that charges a fee to enter. Also, the second half of the paragraph talks about the definition of public place in a different context in a different law, not under Mexican copyright law. Gnom (talk) 10:37, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Krd can, and I'm sure has, read what you wrote in our long back-and-forth above. There's no need to bludgeon the process. IronGargoyle (talk) 23:15, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gnom: I think the relevant part of the page is: "The term lugares publicos has been interpreted to include both interior and exterior public places, such as government-owned places such as libraries, markets, parks, and public gardens. Unfortunately, there is little available guidance on how the exact interpretation." I don't know what Mexican law actually says, and I think the closing admin will rely on the existing consensus unless they think they know better. Can you provide any reference on how the law actually shall be interpreted? --Krd 16:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Krd: Yes, and the list of examples in the (sadly unsourced) sentence you quoted from COM:FOP Mexico ("such as") famously does not mention museums... Regarding your question about what the applicable Mexican law actually says, the relevant clause reads as follows: "[A[rtistic works [...] may [...] be used in the [...] case [of r]eproduction [...] by means of [...] photographs [...] of works that are visible from public places." (art. 148(VII) Mexican copyright act) That is all that we have unfortunately. Gnom (talk) 10:12, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Delete unless we come to an agreement as to whether fee-entry museums qualify as being lugar publico in accordance with Mexican law. Bastique ☎ let's talk! 16:24, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Unfortunately COM:FOP Mexico isn't clear enough on this issue, and where copyright is concerned, we have to default to delete. --The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 05:21, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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